Every day, more and more of the physical work done in our country is done by people of one race with no economic or political power: Hispanic illegal immigrants. This is very hard to miss unless one is rather removed from the day to day physical work that is required to build and maintain our country. Few things constitute “privilege” as much as being removed from the necessary day to day physical work supporting our existence.
Me too. I am imagining the feds know this and allow it to happen because the person working and being paid in this fashion is *probably* not going to file taxes or for a refund. Which means to me, that the govt is keeping the deducted funds. I mean pure speculation on my part but certainly something I have thought about more than once.
Seems like the legacy of denigrating physical labor in the US is strong. The thinly veiled and racist perspective that "physical labor is too hard to regulate and therefore we must exclude all farm and domestic workers" is part of the backbone of this problem.
"The history of the New Deal, including the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
and its exclusions of domestic, agricultural, and tipped workers, is a foundational part of this
legacy. These exclusions did not accidentally deny Black people and other workers of color
the rights and protections given to white workers. Congress intentionally excluded whole
categories of workers from vital protections in order to deny Black people the opportunity
for economic and social freedom and to preserve a system where employers could profit off
of racist exploitation. Nearly half of all Black men, Mexican-American men, and Native
American men and women, plus significant numbers of Asian American workers were
excluded from Social Security, unemployment insurance, and the right to organize in the
NLRA. The effects of this exclusion fell most heavily on Black women because of their
concentration as agricultural and domestic workers."
An excerpt from the TESTIMONY BEFORE THE U.S. HOUSE WORKFORCE PROTECTIONS SUBCOMMITTEE in May of 2021
Yes, it has been very hard for people to translate "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" into economic considerations.
My GUESS continues to be that people would naturally see this and act in accordance with it more, if it wasn't for the economic treadmill turned by our mistaking of debt for wealth.
Specifically - that every country's money, whether they are "capitalist" or "communist", dictatorship or democracy, is in actuality a re-presentation of a debt payable to a private party with interest. --
This turns the treadmill that has everyone scrambling for wealth, while filling the sea of underlying debt even faster. The debt balloons not only in our monetary system, but in loss of topsoil, clean air, clean water, biodiversity, cultural topsoil, etc.
How do we transition to a culture that strives for true wealth, instead of the debt mirage where we wind up treating each other as less-than-human, and also impoverishing the living world in the process?
Seems like it should be easy to figure out. But there's just so much inertia to the present debt-based system! Dag nab it.
The ongoing collapse (notice I didn't say "future") will provide more and more openings, as it will create stutters, openings, within that inertia where something new can enter the dance.
I acknowledge the irony in me saying in these posts that the illegal immigrants who are doing the majority of our physical work are "without economic or political power": in actual fact, they are positioning themselves in the place of greatest true power. They know how to physically manifest things collaboratively. Something the rest of us lost through the generations of shoving physical work onto those whom we thought were less than ourselves.
And another thing! I addressed the economic power, albeit an anecdotal sliver, but not the political. Do you think that you or I have even a smidgeon more political power than an illegal immigrant? Yes, the UAW made strides, as well as Staten Island Amazon (not even sure how that's holding up now), and a smattering of other union gains. Hope it grows. But nothing short of total revolution will change the overall course. And I'm unclear what the call to arms on behalf of hispanics presents, practically.
Yes, physical, essential labor is shat upon. The more essential, the less paid.
"Yes, physical, essential labor is shat upon. The more essential, the less paid."
Exactly. Which is all of the evidence we need to know that we live in an economy that is 100% upside down. I'd argue there's no way for it to end up otherwise as long as we create money as a representation of debt - specifically, as a re-presentation of a debt payable to a private party with interest. A very hard trap to escape.
As far as your point about the political side (vs. the economic: You're also spot on there.. I looked but couldn't find the link to the research paper (I think it was even from some Ivy League university) that proved that what the majority of US citizens believed about a political subject was (is) statistically insignificant to how policy is eventually written.
Which is why it's going to take a great majority to overcome. Which is why all of the Divide & Conquer stategies. IMO
Princeton, I believe. Something like zero correlation at the bottom 90%, and high correlation at the top 10 %. And Sharia law apparently says that interest is against Allah's will; something that is not alive should not grow.
Trump the worst?! Not a fan, but I'll take a narcissist buffoon over the sociopathic Clinton, Bush, Obama or Biden any day. Just by body count alone.
As for the hispanic labor force. I'm not sure they're as disempowered as stated, relative to American lower class laborers. Not to discount it entirely, but I've actually been looking for part time labor and they are commanding around $25/hr. And I can't even find anyone available after asking multiple crews. Where's all this supposed flood of cheap labor? And good for them if they're getting that wage.
As a former small business owner, I am always questioning how the illegal immigrants in the US are able to work and be paid. Paying folks under the table isn't easy unless the business is taking in a lot of cash (a bar or restaurant maybe). On top of that a business needs the deduction of labor as a business expense. Maybe they're able to do so with multiple folks using the same ss#'s? But then taxes are being withheld and is all of that going to the IRS? Maybe these businesses are 1099ing those who are not legally eligible to work? You can't pay someone more than $600 off the books in contract labor a year, so how is it being done? What about the good old I9 form every employee is supposed to have on file with the company? I don't have any answers around this but it's obvious that it does happen and is happening. Curiouser and curiouser.
Yes. Rather curious. I've heard anecdotally that it's very common and easy for illegal immigrants to get fake Social Security numbers.
Then employers just enter the numbers, withdraw all of the withholdings from the paychecks, and it's all above board. And they get lower wages for their workers.
No red flags seem to pop up for any governmental agency along the path.
Which would imply that the path is well-greased all the way through.
I'd like to know more too. *If* folks are being paid WITH payroll deductions, what are the chances that anyone using that social security number actually filing taxes and getting a refund? Doubtful. I am imagining that the feds just keep it and they know this about the situation. More funds for the black budget?! Who knows. The bureaucrats are always up to something fishy.
You got stuck? Let me personally guarantee you that none of the hispanics I've lived with, and worked with and become good friends with would be even slightly offended by Farmer's potentially inaccurate phrasing. They would probably shake their heads or even laugh at the huero's focus on being offended on their behalf.
It's all good and fine, and yes, I personally did get stuck, though I was not "offended."
What I started to write earlier:
My father and I are what some would call "white Hispanic." There are black Hispanics. There are Indigenous Hispanics. There are Chinese and Jewish and you name it Hispanics. Hispanic is not a race. The word Hispanic primarily refers to language.
Me too. I am imagining the feds know this and allow it to happen because the person working and being paid in this fashion is *probably* not going to file taxes or for a refund. Which means to me, that the govt is keeping the deducted funds. I mean pure speculation on my part but certainly something I have thought about more than once.
Agreed.
A fabulous inquiry. Nice job Farms.
Seems like the legacy of denigrating physical labor in the US is strong. The thinly veiled and racist perspective that "physical labor is too hard to regulate and therefore we must exclude all farm and domestic workers" is part of the backbone of this problem.
"The history of the New Deal, including the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
and its exclusions of domestic, agricultural, and tipped workers, is a foundational part of this
legacy. These exclusions did not accidentally deny Black people and other workers of color
the rights and protections given to white workers. Congress intentionally excluded whole
categories of workers from vital protections in order to deny Black people the opportunity
for economic and social freedom and to preserve a system where employers could profit off
of racist exploitation. Nearly half of all Black men, Mexican-American men, and Native
American men and women, plus significant numbers of Asian American workers were
excluded from Social Security, unemployment insurance, and the right to organize in the
NLRA. The effects of this exclusion fell most heavily on Black women because of their
concentration as agricultural and domestic workers."
An excerpt from the TESTIMONY BEFORE THE U.S. HOUSE WORKFORCE PROTECTIONS SUBCOMMITTEE in May of 2021
Yes, it has been very hard for people to translate "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" into economic considerations.
My GUESS continues to be that people would naturally see this and act in accordance with it more, if it wasn't for the economic treadmill turned by our mistaking of debt for wealth.
Specifically - that every country's money, whether they are "capitalist" or "communist", dictatorship or democracy, is in actuality a re-presentation of a debt payable to a private party with interest. --
This turns the treadmill that has everyone scrambling for wealth, while filling the sea of underlying debt even faster. The debt balloons not only in our monetary system, but in loss of topsoil, clean air, clean water, biodiversity, cultural topsoil, etc.
How do we transition to a culture that strives for true wealth, instead of the debt mirage where we wind up treating each other as less-than-human, and also impoverishing the living world in the process?
Seems like it should be easy to figure out. But there's just so much inertia to the present debt-based system! Dag nab it.
The ongoing collapse (notice I didn't say "future") will provide more and more openings, as it will create stutters, openings, within that inertia where something new can enter the dance.
I acknowledge the irony in me saying in these posts that the illegal immigrants who are doing the majority of our physical work are "without economic or political power": in actual fact, they are positioning themselves in the place of greatest true power. They know how to physically manifest things collaboratively. Something the rest of us lost through the generations of shoving physical work onto those whom we thought were less than ourselves.
And another thing! I addressed the economic power, albeit an anecdotal sliver, but not the political. Do you think that you or I have even a smidgeon more political power than an illegal immigrant? Yes, the UAW made strides, as well as Staten Island Amazon (not even sure how that's holding up now), and a smattering of other union gains. Hope it grows. But nothing short of total revolution will change the overall course. And I'm unclear what the call to arms on behalf of hispanics presents, practically.
Yes, physical, essential labor is shat upon. The more essential, the less paid.
"Yes, physical, essential labor is shat upon. The more essential, the less paid."
Exactly. Which is all of the evidence we need to know that we live in an economy that is 100% upside down. I'd argue there's no way for it to end up otherwise as long as we create money as a representation of debt - specifically, as a re-presentation of a debt payable to a private party with interest. A very hard trap to escape.
As far as your point about the political side (vs. the economic: You're also spot on there.. I looked but couldn't find the link to the research paper (I think it was even from some Ivy League university) that proved that what the majority of US citizens believed about a political subject was (is) statistically insignificant to how policy is eventually written.
Which is why it's going to take a great majority to overcome. Which is why all of the Divide & Conquer stategies. IMO
Princeton, I believe. Something like zero correlation at the bottom 90%, and high correlation at the top 10 %. And Sharia law apparently says that interest is against Allah's will; something that is not alive should not grow.
Yup. Princeton. Thanks
Here is a BBC summary of the Princeton study
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
Trump the worst?! Not a fan, but I'll take a narcissist buffoon over the sociopathic Clinton, Bush, Obama or Biden any day. Just by body count alone.
As for the hispanic labor force. I'm not sure they're as disempowered as stated, relative to American lower class laborers. Not to discount it entirely, but I've actually been looking for part time labor and they are commanding around $25/hr. And I can't even find anyone available after asking multiple crews. Where's all this supposed flood of cheap labor? And good for them if they're getting that wage.
As a former small business owner, I am always questioning how the illegal immigrants in the US are able to work and be paid. Paying folks under the table isn't easy unless the business is taking in a lot of cash (a bar or restaurant maybe). On top of that a business needs the deduction of labor as a business expense. Maybe they're able to do so with multiple folks using the same ss#'s? But then taxes are being withheld and is all of that going to the IRS? Maybe these businesses are 1099ing those who are not legally eligible to work? You can't pay someone more than $600 off the books in contract labor a year, so how is it being done? What about the good old I9 form every employee is supposed to have on file with the company? I don't have any answers around this but it's obvious that it does happen and is happening. Curiouser and curiouser.
Yes. Rather curious. I've heard anecdotally that it's very common and easy for illegal immigrants to get fake Social Security numbers.
Then employers just enter the numbers, withdraw all of the withholdings from the paychecks, and it's all above board. And they get lower wages for their workers.
No red flags seem to pop up for any governmental agency along the path.
Which would imply that the path is well-greased all the way through.
Who knows?
I'd love to know more.
I'd like to know more too. *If* folks are being paid WITH payroll deductions, what are the chances that anyone using that social security number actually filing taxes and getting a refund? Doubtful. I am imagining that the feds just keep it and they know this about the situation. More funds for the black budget?! Who knows. The bureaucrats are always up to something fishy.
eek.....I got stuck on the first sentence because I really don't think "Hispanic" is a "race."
Fair enough.
You got stuck? Let me personally guarantee you that none of the hispanics I've lived with, and worked with and become good friends with would be even slightly offended by Farmer's potentially inaccurate phrasing. They would probably shake their heads or even laugh at the huero's focus on being offended on their behalf.
It's all good and fine, and yes, I personally did get stuck, though I was not "offended."
What I started to write earlier:
My father and I are what some would call "white Hispanic." There are black Hispanics. There are Indigenous Hispanics. There are Chinese and Jewish and you name it Hispanics. Hispanic is not a race. The word Hispanic primarily refers to language.
Dictionary.com defines Hispanic as:
adjective
1. Spanish (def. 1).
2. of or relating to Spanish-speaking Latin America:
the United States and its Hispanic neighbors.
noun
3. a citizen or resident of the United States who is of Spanish or Spanish-speaking Latin American descent. : Compare Latino (def. 2).
4. a person whose primary or native language is Spanish.
Anyway, I am also a "white hispanic" person. I wasn't offended, but yes, I did get stuck.
I don't understand the difference between "stuck" and offended.
While I did not take offense to the language, I stopped reading. I got stuck.
So you weren't offended, but you were no longer able/willing to pursue the underlying point because of verbal imprecision?